Site Admin

Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 2316
Location: Indianapolis, IN

What do you guys think of this? DL is adding nonstop service to CDG from PIT and RDU. That makes RDU's 2nd TATL service. Until recently BDL had TATL service. Any reason we can't seem to get the service?

I'm not so sure I'd be a fan of DL's $1400 price tag. With the economy hurting right now I think it is going to be difficult to get people to pay that much money for 757 service.

Member

Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 157
Location:

For some reason, I just don't see the PIT-CGD being profitable. A USAir pilot once told me that they were losing money on their TATL flights in and out of PIT. Most of their int'l travelers were being routed through PHL. This flight could easily be another BDL-AMS flight. Short lived.

I could see RDU-CDG being sucessful though. AA does pretty well on their RDU-LHR flight. Plus, there's so many businesses in the NC Triangle area that would support a market for it.

Site Admin

Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 2316
Location: Indianapolis, IN

I see NW is dropping SEA-LHR. That frees up an A330-200. Sure would be nice if they moved that to IND-AMS I saw someone call SEA-LHR the nonrev express. Kind of funny.

Member

Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 157
Location:

It would be nice if we got the IND-LHR. Not sure if NW would jump at that particular route or not.

Site Admin

Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 2316
Location: Indianapolis, IN

We won't get LHR unless its BA metal. If we were to get that A332 it would be to AMS or CDG. Does the 332 have the legs to reach NRT? I know it does in Flight Sim but I don't know if that is accurate or not.

Member

Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 157
Location:

Indy wrote:

We won't get LHR unless its BA metal. If we were to get that A332 it would be to AMS or CDG. Does the 332 have the legs to reach NRT? I know it does in Flight Sim but I don't know if that is accurate or not.

Good point. I've always heard rumors that BA was coming to IND. However, that rumor has been floating around ever since USAir had the hub here.

I believe NW flies the 332 to NRT out of either DTW or MSP. I'm not 100% sure though. NRT may be a 744 trip.

Site Admin

Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 949
Location: Carmel, IN

Nope. DTW-NRT is 2x daily on a 744. MSP-NRT is once daily on a 744. SEA-NRT is once daily on the A332 (UA flies once daily on a 772). PDX-NRT is also once daily on the A332, as is SFO-NRT. LAX-NRT, the grand old Flight #1, is on the 744. HNL-NRT is split, two flights per day with one on the 744 and one on the A332.

As I've said many times, don't get your hopes up that IND gets direct nonstop service to Europe or Asia any time soon. I just don't think there's enough action here to support such service, given all the other places that airlines can deploy their very limited resources. And despite assertions to the contrary, I really don't think a 757 will have the legs to reliably offer service from IND to any major airport in Europe. The first new International service beyond YYZ and CUN will be somewhere like MEX or possibly somewhere in the Carribean.

Site Admin

Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 2316
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Boofer.. I know the 757 has the legs for IND-DTW. I was told this by a NW 757 TATL pilot. IND-AMS is only 10 miles further than DTW-FRA and people swear up and down that distance wasn't an issue. I'm 95% certain range isn't the problem.

Member

Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 157
Location:

Boofer wrote:

Nope. DTW-NRT is 2x daily on a 744. MSP-NRT is once daily on a 744. SEA-NRT is once daily on the A332 (UA flies once daily on a 772). PDX-NRT is also once daily on the A332, as is SFO-NRT. LAX-NRT, the grand old Flight #1, is on the 744. HNL-NRT is split, two flights per day with one on the 744 and one on the A332.

As I've said many times, don't get your hopes up that IND gets direct nonstop service to Europe or Asia any time soon. I just don't think there's enough action here to support such service, given all the other places that airlines can deploy their very limited resources. And despite assertions to the contrary, I really don't think a 757 will have the legs to reliably offer service from IND to any major airport in Europe. The first new International service beyond YYZ and CUN will be somewhere like MEX or possibly somewhere in the Carribean.


With that being said, do you see Indy as supporting more vacation travelers to places like the Carribean or more business travelers to destinations in Europe? ATA seemed to do pretty well with their flights to the Carribean, but at the same time, I've seen a pretty good response to the TATL rumors.

Site Admin

Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 949
Location: Carmel, IN

Indy... I know you heard the IND-AMS 757 story from a NW pilot. My cousin flies the 757 for UA, and he confirms that it could have the legs for IND-AMS. It's AMS-IND that might be a problem, with typical headwinds even. With any kind of extraordinary headwind, it's definitely not gonna reach coming home. The only way to make it work in a regular schedule is to load it light, and then the economics come into question.

My take on international service at IND is this: if I'm an airline executive, and I have limited resources to deploy in adding new international (especially TATL) service, IND is probably on the list, but it's pretty far down the list. Cities like RDU getting TATL service don't surprise me. But if I were in charge of DL, I would probably have BOS, BDL, BWI, PIT, RDU, CLE, STL, and even MCI on the list for new TATL service before IND. And I'd probably have expanded service from DTW to more European cities on this list before IND, too. I don't want to be a pessimist, but I just don't see IND as a great candidate for TATL service right now, all things considered. I sure would LOVE to see it, but I'm just skeptical. So if we assume that the rumors/statements about IND getting new international service from a new airline, I really think it's most likely to be vacation-oriented Carribean or Mexico service, probably seasonal, and perhaps not daily service. If it's not vacation-oriented per se, then perhaps it's daily service to MEX or maybe YUL (but that's a stretch).

Site Admin

Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 2316
Location: Indianapolis, IN

This is really pathetic for IND. As bad as BDL-AMS performed they are getting it back.

http://www.courant.com/busines...damflight-1209,0,3087277.story

We still can't get anything. We can't even get a new Caribbean route. This is embarrassing for the city.