Member

Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 333
Location: St. Louis, MO

As a kid I remember AA having about four flights a day from Indy to Dallas Ft. Worth with the flights to Chicago being flown by the ATR. I remember after the ATR crash in Roselawn the ATR's were out and the Saabs came in, although we flew a subbed 727 from Indy to O'Hare. When did AA start using mainline jets into O'Hare on a regular basis?

Also, when did Miami service begin? I don't remember its official kick off.

Site Admin

Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 949
Location: Carmel, IN

IIRC, the AA MIA service began sometime in the second half of last year. Maybe just before Labor Day? Indy probably knows.

And as far as the mainlines to ORD go, I'm not much of an AA flyer, so I'm not sure. But looking at the difference in n/s seats to ORD, you could argue that UA and AA are using slightly different strategies.

AA flies 708 total seats TO ORD on a weekday. That breaks down to 408 M80 seats and 300 ER4 seats. The M80s are at "business" times early morning and 5:00 rush hour, going to Chicago. The earliest M80 is timed to connect to the first bank going domestic. The 5:00 M80 is timed to connect to the evening bank that covers late-evening east and west coast arrivals, and the evening departures for Europe. These are the only aircraft they use with first-class seating, which is traditionally assumed to be held in higher esteem by the higher-margin business traveller. On the other hand, all the other flights are on Jungle Jets, which are used for flight times that tend to vary more in their loads, i.e. midday. The last flight on the ER4 is timed for return o&d traffic to ORD, as it misses many of the last bank of connections.

AA's is the more traditional model of hub-and-spoke operations. UA runs the capacity a little differently, but that's because Republic has ER7's to offer. The ER7, of course, has a first class section, has a higher ceiling, 2x2 seating, and - at least on UA for now - Economy Plus. UA flies 674 total seats TO ORD, 420 of which are on the ER7. 150 seats are on one two ER4's and one CRJ. And 104 seats are on an aging 735. So the 735 and the ER7's could be considered the "business-traveler-friendly" aircraft as opposed to the small RJ's. That puts over 75% of UA's capacity on business aircraft, while AA's are only 58%. Maybe this isn't a big difference. But with the ER7 being able to offer business-friendly environment on a smaller - and thus more frequently offered - aircraft, UA is able to position itself as the carrier IND-ORD with more potentially high-margin business seats available at more times throughout the day.

And looking at UA's timing, you can see how they're using the ER7 to match up with AA's M80s. They fly three ER7's (210 seats) and one ER4 (50) to match AA's two M80's (272 seats) into the first connection bank. But looking at premium seats in that time window, that's UA with 18 first class and 48 Economy Plus (66 total "premium" seats), or 31% of their early-bank seats. AA comes in with two M80s in that window having 16 first-class seats each, for a total of 32 premium seats and 12% of their seats. That says to me that UA is obviously using the ER7 to go after the business flyer - which I think many people already know.

Even more, looking at IND-ORD seats timed to connect to the evening bank and European redeyes, it really stacks up as UA having one ER7 and one 735 to AA's single M80. That puts 14 first class and 52 E+ seats from UA up against 16 first class seats from AA. And these are the flights that will ferry people to the high-margin international flights.

I'm not try to say that AA or UA is better, I just think it's an interesting illustration of UA's savvy use of the ER7 from Republic at a time when AA just dropped their "more room throughout coach" pledge. And now that a reinvigorated UA is looking to focus on business travelers and international service, it makes me wonder if AA might not be rethinking their position vis-a-vis their longtime neighbor and nemesis at ORD.

Member

Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 333
Location: St. Louis, MO

Interesting analysis and I for one, never even begin to think about the "seat" offerings in that way...although I did notice, in fact, the use of the M80 during certain times of the day, which really isn't surprising.

Of course, with your unique analysis being said, I am not saying this disrespectfully at all, but don't forget that UAL has an operation several hella times the size of the one of American at Chicago O'Hare, so it would make more sense to be business savvy on a more frequent basis, especially with the UAL international connections and codeshares available from O'Hare, particularly those involving German outbounds and inbounds.

Also, isn't United moving more to a focus of the ER7's when flying from hub to major sized city is right about an hour or less, or am I just dreaming?

Site Admin

Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 949
Location: Carmel, IN

You're right on both counts. AA's ops in ORD are about half the size of UA's. It is a major international hub for them, though. But the premium seats from IND-ORD on AA are probably about in the right proportion to UA's considering the size of each airlines ops at ORD.

And yes, UA began the process of converting mainline to larger RJ's, like the ER7 flown by Republic/Chatauqua, long before they entered Chapter 11. It makes so much sense that they'd be stupid NOT to do it. If you've never flown on the ER7, you're missing out. I prefer them to the 737's for their cabin height and 2x2 seating.

Member

Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 333
Location: St. Louis, MO

Well, here in St. Louis when it comes to flying United you have the option of flying mainline (which I'd prefer anyway especially over) or the second option of flying United Express, which is Trans States with the ERJ's (shitty airline & shitty operation) and the new GoJets with the CR7's.

If I lived closer to Indy, you bet your ass one of the first things I'd do is book a day trip on United and include the ER7 in the itinerary.